Responses to My Warnings About Lancaster's Music - Part 3
March 4, 2011
David Cloud, Way of Life Literature, P.O. Box 610368, Port Huron, MI 48061
866-295-4143, fbns@wayoflife.org
866-295-4143, fbns@wayoflife.org
Proverbs 27:5-6 “Open rebuke is better than secret love. Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful.”
Galatians 4:16 “Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?”
Psalms 119:165 “Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them.”
Proverbs 9:8 “Reprove not a scorner, lest he hate thee: rebuke a wise man, and he will love thee.”
Psalms 119:128 Therefore I esteem all thy precepts concerning all things to be right; and I hate every false way.
Following are some more of the positive e-mails I received in response to the February 18 Friday News article “Lancaster Baptist Shouting to the Lord” and subsequent articles on that subject:
“If Brother Cloud is wrong on this issue, then he will need to admit he is wrong and humbly ask for forgiveness. But we first need to establish from the Scriptures whether he is wrong or not, and from what I see, Brother Cloud is dead right. If the people who have been caught with their hand stuck in the cookie jar want to establish that Brother Cloud is wrong, then they will need to do a lot better at using a relevant verse of Scripture to prove it than they have to date. If that's the best these learned people can do then I don't think Brother Cloud needs to start writing his confession any time soon.”
“Bro. Cloud, do NOT stop speaking out against IB churches' compromises with CCM music. It is music that appeals to the flesh, to emotions and to ‘feelings’ -- if it didn't, you would not be getting so much negative feedback. Once one is sucked into its grip, it is difficult to shake loose. I know from experience and I'm not proud to admit it ... the music appealed to my flesh and I kept justifying my listening to it because it had ‘Christian lyrics.’ However, praise the Lord for your admonishing because the Lord used it to work on my heart! I have abstained from this ungodly music for several months now and it amazes me how I could spot CCM's influence while viewing the ‘Shout to the Lord’ video. CCM has become an end-time 'church' with a huge cash cow which appeals to the flesh. Please, Bro. Cloud, do not stop the warnings!”
“Kinda hard swimming in a pond with fish who think they are big but are not! God has no big fish. Well, here is one family with nine kids that have been helped by a Preacher who has stood for the truth.”
“It rather shocks me that those who used to be (I think they were?) Bible-minded and conservative both in preaching and consistent musically, so easily identify themselves with the popular modernist trends.”
“I know that you have had a lot of emails in regards to this. I will be honest when I first read your post about this subject I was not happy. ... In my opinion what you have brought up is the ‘elephant in the room’ in Independent Baptist Churches (much like the southern gospel verse country music). We do not want to admit that we are using CCM in our churches.”
“Dear Bro. Cloud, I have been reading your reports now for for nearly a year and have looked forward to each posting. The info you provide me is worth its weight in gold. ... Your reports about CCM and separation are right on the mark.”
“I appreciate the thoroughness of your explanation for the Warning about CCM & CCW. A few years back some of the more benign songs of CCW were in some BJU/Soundforth cds (which they still are using each year). We started singing a few of the calmer renditions based on these cds (not knowing the difference), such as ‘How Deep the Father's Love for Us’ by Stuart Townsend and others like it. However as the pastor giving our people these song choices, I soon realized where they were coming from. The genre wasn't Conservative Christian music like Ron Hamilton or the Wilds but it was from the publishers of the CCM songs. It was also interesting that I noted that the words of Scripture in the songs aren't based on the King James Version but on the newer versions. Those two things alone were enough to let me know that I should steer clear of these very mellow Contemporary Worship songs. And sure enough I have come to find out that they are the TRANSITION SONGS that help to get a church from the Hymns and Good Spiritual Songs to the Contemporary Charismatic Praise Music of the Christian Rock World. I have noticed another one of these more benign bridge songs is the song ‘In Christ Alone’ by Keith Getty and Stuart Townsend. That song has the 2/4 backbeat in it but it can be played with a very mild backbeat or very rocky. Keith and Kristyn Getty advertise themselves as ‘Modern Hymn Writers’ and are deceiving many into the Rock Genre by this very innocent title and the more conservative Praise Soft Rock music. But the fact is, that they are not modern hymnwriters because they are putting out Rock Music which is not spiritual at all but carnal and thereby, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and not the spirit (spiritual part of us yielding to the Holy Spirit). The modern hymn writers among us are people like Mac Lynch, Ron Hamilton, Frank Garlock and others like them who are still putting out Scriptural songs, hymns and spiritual songs. We can evaluate each piece of music whether it has a front beat (4/4 pattern - beats on the 1st and 3rd beat) or a back beat (Rock Beat - 4/4 pattern - beats based on the 2nd and 4th beat). Every pastor needs to educate himself on these very important musical principles (Psalm 40:3).”
“I can't help thinking that, even with all the compromises among IB's, there is a groundswell of increasing awareness/ alertness that is due to the spread of your ministry. Others, like myself, are stirred to speak up. For years I have been digging in the Word and in church histories on the subject of Revival. One of my surprising discoveries is that revivals usually come when they are most needed, when the situation among the Lord's people is really bad. Although I am inclined to think that apostasy is rampant and we are very near the Rapture, it is just possible the Lord may yet revive His people again. The 1859 revivals are good examples, I think. Keep on blowing the trumpet, brother, not everybody is deaf yet.”
“Thank you for your timely warning regarding West Coast Baptist and CCM. I [had to] resign from a church that brought in CCM and along with it false Bible translations such as the NIV, ESV, NASB and NKJV. Having left that liberal and unbiblical place, we went back to our home church. In the time since we returned, the Senior Pastor and Deacons have embraced CCM (of course without the rock beat). However they present it through a special ‘worship’ team. Since this time, younger people in the church have been embracing it at a rapid rate. But it is interesting to note that along with the music style changes, the clothing of people has increasingly become less modest among many who embrace CCM. Hem lines are shorter, tops are lower, and more and more bits are being shown. Hair on women is getting shorter and on some men getting a bit longer. There is definitely a connection here. It has come to the point, that my family and I are going to be moving ... so that we can worship with other believers in a strong new testament church -- away from the garbage that CCM brings. Keep fighting the good fight!”
“Bro Cloud, thank you for this email [‘What If Brother Cloud Is Wrong about the West Coast Thing?’]. The real issue was getting lost chasing rabbits and you have brought it back to where it needs to be--focusing on the CCM issue. ... My wife and I support your stand and encourage you to continue to speak to the issues that are robbing IB of their fellowship with the Lord and His power to change things. The world has its way today because the pulpits fell silent on sin decades ago.”
“I had not intended to email regarding this matter, and I have been in prayer, thanking the Lord for the part of your warning ministry even when you have to stand in the minority. When preachers say you should have talked to Pastor Chappell privately first, I was reminded about Galatians 2:14: ‘But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all...’ Paul rebuked Peter before them all because they weren't walking uprightly. This seems to apply here. They (West Coast Baptist College and other IB churches) are not walking uprightly, so scripturally Pastor Chappell is rebuked before all. Without this rebuke before all, even a Barnabas might be ‘carried away with their dissimulation’ (Gal 3:13).”
“Brother Cloud: About Matthew 18, and its correct interpretation as applying to sins of one individual against another in the church setting, you have hit on a very huge problem caused by error in interpretation. ... Do we want feel good so-called Christianity that tickles our ears, or are we open to the true teachings of Christ via the Holy Spirit. How about letting the words of Christ say what they really mean? Public teachings, and practices, which have gone out to the churches, are to be publicly discerned by those called, and therefore responsible to do so. Unbelievable that men of God cannot even discern the meaning and application of Mt. 18 in this regard. This is a sin against biblical knowledge at the basic level of understanding. This escape hatch needs to be sealed off at once!!! Your brother in the Lord.”
“First, I want to thank you for your many years of service to our Savior in your Way of Life ministry, and your church planting and missionary work in Nepal. God knows that is a very dark, ritualistic place that needs the gospel of Christ to shine bright and lead men to repentance. Your work there will no doubt reap eternal rewards. Your work in Way of Life has had a great impact on my life personally as well, and has influenced me in way that very few have. Thank you! Very few men have the ministry God has lead you in. As this world gets darker and darker, and as men become more and more lovers of their own selves instead of lovers of God, your ministry to sound the trumpet becomes more and more needed. I thank God continually for you Bro. Cloud. I know writing about CCM, ecumenicalism, compromise, heretics, etc., and calling out the people who promote such teachings has caused much criticism of you, your character, and your ministry. I know sometimes you probably even feel like Elijah battling the false prophets of Baal. Like you are the only one in the fight. Just remember Bro., there is yet ‘seven thousand,… whose knees have not bowed’ to compromise and the devils lies. God has given you a unique and powerful opportunity, and I just want to encourage you to stay the course, finish the race God has set before, and ‘press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.’ ... Your articles on West Coast, Crown (my Alma mater) , Northland, and other such institutions may not be popular, but they sure are needed.”
“I have been following your exposure of problems at West Coast and the responses with interest. I want to say that I am thankful that you take the time to study and travel and then also to teach the things that you learn. I do not have the time nor the wherewithal to go to the many places you go to. Yet there is a need to know what is happening. As a pastor, I want to give sound guidance to the people God sends across my path. Those who are saved need to be fed sound doctrine. I have been concerned about what I see and read about IFB Bible Colleges for a number of years. Schools that once seemed to stand strong have since fallen away. The same seems true for many churches. I am coming to the place where I believe the best place for men and women to be taught and groomed is in the local church. I am more in favour of inviting some sound men in to come and do some teaching, rather than sending people out into an environment that is not sound.”
“I think I've read all the emails on this and I support you fully on what you've done. (Not that you need my support).”
“Good Morning Brother Cloud: Thank you for writing these last two articles. I liken this to a freeway where the far right lane is becoming an exit in a quarter-mile. As such, the fence sitters in the far right lane need to make a choice. They can either get off the exit lane and take steps towards being truly separated from these exits, or else, they are on their way towards exiting the freeway. As WCBC's followers pile into the exit lane, I appreciate how you are being absolutely relentless in this situation. From the letter to the missionary: ‘THE FOLLOWING IS THE BOTTOM LINE TO ME. Everyone needs to forget me and focus on the real issue. Even if I'm wrong, my actions aren't going to destroy the very heart and soul of IB churches. But using CCM will. And promoting philosophies that support CCM will.’ Amen! That quote in bold is perfect. I love how you redirected attention to the issue and not yourself. I think this is excellent proof that you are not the egomaniac these critics say you are. As for this Matthew 18 business, I simply don't understand why anyone would continue to parrot it like the missionary you responded to. You anticipated this criticism on day one and wrote a short answer in advance on Feb. 18. Didn't anyone read it? Hasn't anyone tried to rebut your arguments that Lancaster's influence warrants greater responsibility? It's amazing how people are attacking your person instead of your position. It shows more about them than it does about you. The other thing they need to think about is the autonomy of local churches. Wouldn't Matthew 18 cause a conflict of interest between your pastor and Brother Chappell? And if we can no longer expect God-called pastors to be publicly accountable, why should we expect man-elected governments to be accountable? As for a public outcry, I believe that the public outcry that you are pushing for is imminent, if it is not already there. Please keep pressing on.”
“I do not always agree with some subjects you bring forward in your writings, but I must say this one you hit it -- dead center. I grew up in music, worldly music, and was a servant to it. It made me move, contorting my body in an ungodly manner. It took years for God to throw down the mold from the wheel of life and crush it, then mold me into what He wanted me to be, free from the snares, lies, and utter deception that the worldly music brings. ... The influence of the worldly music comes into the mainline churches via the Charismatic movement. It is nothing but worshiping the flesh. True worship is honoring God in everything you do, lacking in nothing. The Lord has his seal of approval on your efforts in this respect. May the Lord of all grace and mercy bless you.”
“Using CCM is worldly and is sin. I watched the YouTube video and could not believe anyone who stands for biblical principles could have such an event. From what I have read this trend at West Coast has been going on for some time. Why has not someone else addressed this? Who is West Coast accountable to? When the light of God's Word exposes worldliness, people who love God's truth repent. I hear not one word of repentance from West Coast and that brothers me greatly. Our loyalty should be to our Savior and His truth. You did right and thank you.”
“Thank you brother Cloud for taking a Godly stand. I support you.”
“Brother Cloud, Spot on!”
“Stay in the fight! Bro. Cloud, a host of people are praying for you.”
“Jesus was never in the majority. When I was still in sin, I'd go to everyone and try to get a team together that would side with me to defend my stance even if I was in the wrong. I think what you have done is call attention to a subject that is very emotional and divides many churches. I was a drug using, dealing, bar hopping rock and roll concert, immoral person for the majority of my life. I have been redeemed for 15 years now and some years ago went to a ... Christmas concert (with good intentions), but found it so much like a rock concert I was appalled. Thanks!”
“I am writing again to express amazement at just how far Independent Baptist have moved in the wrong direction concerning music. ... I know which Bible the one-world church WILL NOT be using! Well then one can conclude that the one-world church WILL probably NOT be using the old hymnal and the blessed old church songs and hymns. What do you think?”
“Thank you a hundred times over for this article [‘Musical Associations and CCM Adaptation’]. You have articulated so many things in a concise manner, many of which have been floating in fragments through our minds or discussed in our home, but which we have not succeeded (or even attempted) to consolidate in such a fashion. We appreciate you giving specific examples to prove your points. In a family discussion just recently we were comparing the lyrics of ‘Majesty’ specifically with some of the great doctrinal hymns of the Faith to illustrate to our children why we have such a great aversion for modern charismatic music in general. I look forward to sharing your article with them.”
“I am an independent Fundamental Bible Believing Baptist missionary. ... I just wanted to send you a quick note to let you know that I greatly appreciate your stand and your willingness to be a watchman. We need more Christ honoring men who are willing to stand up and proclaim the truth no matter who it may or may not offend. It saddens me to see how quickly some of these fundamental baptist churches are falling by the wayside especially in the areas of easy believism and in the area of music. May God Bless you as you take a bold stand for Him and the Truth.”
“May God bless you, profusely and always! These foolish naysayers need to get a life and move on!! This was not a ‘within one church’ issue, thus, Matthew 18 would not apply! Warning others of the Devil's wiles is called for in the Bible! Especially in this case where Brother David Cloud is exercising his duties as a good shepherd for the many who listen to him!”
“I have been pushed to further heights with you writings. Iron sharpeneth iron. The Lord has used the Way of Life greatly and of course the Word even more so. ... You promote The Word of God. That is more important then be cozy with man. Even Me. I pray for you and the ministry the has used you in. 1 Sam 15:22 - it is better to obey than sacrifice.”
“Well said [‘What If Brother Cloud Is Wrong about the West Coast Thing?’]. I recently taught on the misuse and abuse of Matthew 18. It is sad when preachers and missionaries do not even know the proper use of Biblical correction. People have taken and twisted 1 Cor. 5-6 and packed it into Matthew 18 and at the same time totally ignored 1 Tim. 5.”
“For young preachers like us and future preachers who want to stay uncompromisingly on the Scriptures, we need this kind of warning and exhortation. ... Your kind of ministry does a lot of good to us. Heads up, Bro Cloud, our Redemption draweth nigh. Keep up the good work.”
“I find it amazing (but maybe I shouldn't) that so many people want to focus on you and your actions instead of focusing on the issue. As you said here, you are not the problem. The lack of desire to stand true to Biblical standards is the problem. God bless!”
“I do want to encourage you. The ‘crowd’ or multitude has always been wrong. I knew from your first post you were in for some criticism. Looks to me like we ought to be criticizing (rebuking and reproving) false doctrine and practices, rather than defending them. David, I would never have thought 10-15 years ago so many IFB churches would be involved in so much worldliness. But I think you too fully understand we are so very near the Lord's return and what we are seeing He told us would happen. What bothers me the most is the effect this is having on the Lord's sheep because of the poor quality and lack of discernment of those in the pulpits of IFB churches. They are slandering the name of our Lord and those of us who love our Savior, His sheep and a lost and dying world. Thank you for being the watchman on the wall.”
“I am extremely encouraged to see such ‘fighting talk.’ It's about time somebody starting whipping and driving out the dumb dogs who don't bark (Isaiah 56:10-11). As for apathy, which you mentioned, I hear you. Whenever I bring these sorts of things up, people like my parents and my church's deacons yawn or bring up their little smokescreens so as to look so pious and convincing to the ignorant observers. It's disgusting. What do they hope to accomplish with their fatalism (i.e., we can't do anything about compromise and these deviations, so let's go with the flow so long as we aren't at the front of the school of fish moving towards polluted waters)? What do they hope to accomplish with apathy when God has plainly instructed them as to what they should believe and what to do about it?”
“Dear Bro. Cloud: I don't believe Matthew 18 applies in your warning about LBC and WCBC. If any passage of Scripture would be used against the manner of your warning it would be Galatians 6:1. However, I believe you have not set yourself up as a righteous judge. I took your warning as a reproof in the spirit of meekness with the intent of restoration. LBC's music is public knowledge. Reproof is in keeping with II Tim. 4:2 and Titus 2:1,12 &15. Peter was not too big to be reproved by Paul nor is Pastor Chappell by any brother. The sad thing is so many think he is too big to be wrong. That's a scary place for IB's to be going. This is not a matter of personal preference's but of significant error and compromise that will have eternal consequences.”
“Thank you for the sanity check (‘What If Brother Cloud Is Wrong about the West Coast Thing?’). You, by your warnings, indeed will not destroy any church loving and serving Christ in humble obedience to His Word. But there are many, many things can can and will, if left unchecked. Thank you for your humble obedience to your Master.”
“Praise the Lord for your boldness and for not allowing the fear of man to become a snare in preventing you from reproving a serious direction of compromise at West Coast and Lancaster. I would like to add another country of influence of West Coast to your list – Papa New Guinea. ... There is a West Coast influence there because of the IB missionaries who are sent out by WC. They are inviting and in some cases paying for the national pastors to go to their conferences back in the US. ... The American missionaries don’t see it, but the music that they are promoting is a hindrance and a stumbling block to the people. What makes it confusing is that they stand against the Pentecostal/charismatic music and hand out Cary Schmidt’s book ‘Music Matters’ to help educate the pastors about the dangers of CCM. ... I was given some WC music. I was quite shocked when I listened to it, and it now sits in my stack of CDs that I use to demonstrate what not to listen to. ... This WC influence is confusing for them and is going to cause many more problems down the track if it is not confronted.”
Proverbs 27:5-6 “Open rebuke is better than secret love. Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful.”
Galatians 4:16 “Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?”
Psalms 119:165 “Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them.”
Proverbs 9:8 “Reprove not a scorner, lest he hate thee: rebuke a wise man, and he will love thee.”
Galatians 4:16 “Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?”
Psalms 119:165 “Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them.”
Proverbs 9:8 “Reprove not a scorner, lest he hate thee: rebuke a wise man, and he will love thee.”
Psalms 119:128 Therefore I esteem all thy precepts concerning all things to be right; and I hate every false way.
Following are some more of the positive e-mails I received in response to the February 18 Friday News article “Lancaster Baptist Shouting to the Lord” and subsequent articles on that subject:
“If Brother Cloud is wrong on this issue, then he will need to admit he is wrong and humbly ask for forgiveness. But we first need to establish from the Scriptures whether he is wrong or not, and from what I see, Brother Cloud is dead right. If the people who have been caught with their hand stuck in the cookie jar want to establish that Brother Cloud is wrong, then they will need to do a lot better at using a relevant verse of Scripture to prove it than they have to date. If that's the best these learned people can do then I don't think Brother Cloud needs to start writing his confession any time soon.”
“Bro. Cloud, do NOT stop speaking out against IB churches' compromises with CCM music. It is music that appeals to the flesh, to emotions and to ‘feelings’ -- if it didn't, you would not be getting so much negative feedback. Once one is sucked into its grip, it is difficult to shake loose. I know from experience and I'm not proud to admit it ... the music appealed to my flesh and I kept justifying my listening to it because it had ‘Christian lyrics.’ However, praise the Lord for your admonishing because the Lord used it to work on my heart! I have abstained from this ungodly music for several months now and it amazes me how I could spot CCM's influence while viewing the ‘Shout to the Lord’ video. CCM has become an end-time 'church' with a huge cash cow which appeals to the flesh. Please, Bro. Cloud, do not stop the warnings!”
“Kinda hard swimming in a pond with fish who think they are big but are not! God has no big fish. Well, here is one family with nine kids that have been helped by a Preacher who has stood for the truth.”
“It rather shocks me that those who used to be (I think they were?) Bible-minded and conservative both in preaching and consistent musically, so easily identify themselves with the popular modernist trends.”
“I know that you have had a lot of emails in regards to this. I will be honest when I first read your post about this subject I was not happy. ... In my opinion what you have brought up is the ‘elephant in the room’ in Independent Baptist Churches (much like the southern gospel verse country music). We do not want to admit that we are using CCM in our churches.”
“Dear Bro. Cloud, I have been reading your reports now for for nearly a year and have looked forward to each posting. The info you provide me is worth its weight in gold. ... Your reports about CCM and separation are right on the mark.”
“I appreciate the thoroughness of your explanation for the Warning about CCM & CCW. A few years back some of the more benign songs of CCW were in some BJU/Soundforth cds (which they still are using each year). We started singing a few of the calmer renditions based on these cds (not knowing the difference), such as ‘How Deep the Father's Love for Us’ by Stuart Townsend and others like it. However as the pastor giving our people these song choices, I soon realized where they were coming from. The genre wasn't Conservative Christian music like Ron Hamilton or the Wilds but it was from the publishers of the CCM songs. It was also interesting that I noted that the words of Scripture in the songs aren't based on the King James Version but on the newer versions. Those two things alone were enough to let me know that I should steer clear of these very mellow Contemporary Worship songs. And sure enough I have come to find out that they are the TRANSITION SONGS that help to get a church from the Hymns and Good Spiritual Songs to the Contemporary Charismatic Praise Music of the Christian Rock World. I have noticed another one of these more benign bridge songs is the song ‘In Christ Alone’ by Keith Getty and Stuart Townsend. That song has the 2/4 backbeat in it but it can be played with a very mild backbeat or very rocky. Keith and Kristyn Getty advertise themselves as ‘Modern Hymn Writers’ and are deceiving many into the Rock Genre by this very innocent title and the more conservative Praise Soft Rock music. But the fact is, that they are not modern hymnwriters because they are putting out Rock Music which is not spiritual at all but carnal and thereby, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and not the spirit (spiritual part of us yielding to the Holy Spirit). The modern hymn writers among us are people like Mac Lynch, Ron Hamilton, Frank Garlock and others like them who are still putting out Scriptural songs, hymns and spiritual songs. We can evaluate each piece of music whether it has a front beat (4/4 pattern - beats on the 1st and 3rd beat) or a back beat (Rock Beat - 4/4 pattern - beats based on the 2nd and 4th beat). Every pastor needs to educate himself on these very important musical principles (Psalm 40:3).”
“I can't help thinking that, even with all the compromises among IB's, there is a groundswell of increasing awareness/ alertness that is due to the spread of your ministry. Others, like myself, are stirred to speak up. For years I have been digging in the Word and in church histories on the subject of Revival. One of my surprising discoveries is that revivals usually come when they are most needed, when the situation among the Lord's people is really bad. Although I am inclined to think that apostasy is rampant and we are very near the Rapture, it is just possible the Lord may yet revive His people again. The 1859 revivals are good examples, I think. Keep on blowing the trumpet, brother, not everybody is deaf yet.”
“Thank you for your timely warning regarding West Coast Baptist and CCM. I [had to] resign from a church that brought in CCM and along with it false Bible translations such as the NIV, ESV, NASB and NKJV. Having left that liberal and unbiblical place, we went back to our home church. In the time since we returned, the Senior Pastor and Deacons have embraced CCM (of course without the rock beat). However they present it through a special ‘worship’ team. Since this time, younger people in the church have been embracing it at a rapid rate. But it is interesting to note that along with the music style changes, the clothing of people has increasingly become less modest among many who embrace CCM. Hem lines are shorter, tops are lower, and more and more bits are being shown. Hair on women is getting shorter and on some men getting a bit longer. There is definitely a connection here. It has come to the point, that my family and I are going to be moving ... so that we can worship with other believers in a strong new testament church -- away from the garbage that CCM brings. Keep fighting the good fight!”
“Bro Cloud, thank you for this email [‘What If Brother Cloud Is Wrong about the West Coast Thing?’]. The real issue was getting lost chasing rabbits and you have brought it back to where it needs to be--focusing on the CCM issue. ... My wife and I support your stand and encourage you to continue to speak to the issues that are robbing IB of their fellowship with the Lord and His power to change things. The world has its way today because the pulpits fell silent on sin decades ago.”
“I had not intended to email regarding this matter, and I have been in prayer, thanking the Lord for the part of your warning ministry even when you have to stand in the minority. When preachers say you should have talked to Pastor Chappell privately first, I was reminded about Galatians 2:14: ‘But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all...’ Paul rebuked Peter before them all because they weren't walking uprightly. This seems to apply here. They (West Coast Baptist College and other IB churches) are not walking uprightly, so scripturally Pastor Chappell is rebuked before all. Without this rebuke before all, even a Barnabas might be ‘carried away with their dissimulation’ (Gal 3:13).”
“Brother Cloud: About Matthew 18, and its correct interpretation as applying to sins of one individual against another in the church setting, you have hit on a very huge problem caused by error in interpretation. ... Do we want feel good so-called Christianity that tickles our ears, or are we open to the true teachings of Christ via the Holy Spirit. How about letting the words of Christ say what they really mean? Public teachings, and practices, which have gone out to the churches, are to be publicly discerned by those called, and therefore responsible to do so. Unbelievable that men of God cannot even discern the meaning and application of Mt. 18 in this regard. This is a sin against biblical knowledge at the basic level of understanding. This escape hatch needs to be sealed off at once!!! Your brother in the Lord.”
“First, I want to thank you for your many years of service to our Savior in your Way of Life ministry, and your church planting and missionary work in Nepal. God knows that is a very dark, ritualistic place that needs the gospel of Christ to shine bright and lead men to repentance. Your work there will no doubt reap eternal rewards. Your work in Way of Life has had a great impact on my life personally as well, and has influenced me in way that very few have. Thank you! Very few men have the ministry God has lead you in. As this world gets darker and darker, and as men become more and more lovers of their own selves instead of lovers of God, your ministry to sound the trumpet becomes more and more needed. I thank God continually for you Bro. Cloud. I know writing about CCM, ecumenicalism, compromise, heretics, etc., and calling out the people who promote such teachings has caused much criticism of you, your character, and your ministry. I know sometimes you probably even feel like Elijah battling the false prophets of Baal. Like you are the only one in the fight. Just remember Bro., there is yet ‘seven thousand,… whose knees have not bowed’ to compromise and the devils lies. God has given you a unique and powerful opportunity, and I just want to encourage you to stay the course, finish the race God has set before, and ‘press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.’ ... Your articles on West Coast, Crown (my Alma mater) , Northland, and other such institutions may not be popular, but they sure are needed.”
“I have been following your exposure of problems at West Coast and the responses with interest. I want to say that I am thankful that you take the time to study and travel and then also to teach the things that you learn. I do not have the time nor the wherewithal to go to the many places you go to. Yet there is a need to know what is happening. As a pastor, I want to give sound guidance to the people God sends across my path. Those who are saved need to be fed sound doctrine. I have been concerned about what I see and read about IFB Bible Colleges for a number of years. Schools that once seemed to stand strong have since fallen away. The same seems true for many churches. I am coming to the place where I believe the best place for men and women to be taught and groomed is in the local church. I am more in favour of inviting some sound men in to come and do some teaching, rather than sending people out into an environment that is not sound.”
“I think I've read all the emails on this and I support you fully on what you've done. (Not that you need my support).”
“Good Morning Brother Cloud: Thank you for writing these last two articles. I liken this to a freeway where the far right lane is becoming an exit in a quarter-mile. As such, the fence sitters in the far right lane need to make a choice. They can either get off the exit lane and take steps towards being truly separated from these exits, or else, they are on their way towards exiting the freeway. As WCBC's followers pile into the exit lane, I appreciate how you are being absolutely relentless in this situation. From the letter to the missionary: ‘THE FOLLOWING IS THE BOTTOM LINE TO ME. Everyone needs to forget me and focus on the real issue. Even if I'm wrong, my actions aren't going to destroy the very heart and soul of IB churches. But using CCM will. And promoting philosophies that support CCM will.’ Amen! That quote in bold is perfect. I love how you redirected attention to the issue and not yourself. I think this is excellent proof that you are not the egomaniac these critics say you are. As for this Matthew 18 business, I simply don't understand why anyone would continue to parrot it like the missionary you responded to. You anticipated this criticism on day one and wrote a short answer in advance on Feb. 18. Didn't anyone read it? Hasn't anyone tried to rebut your arguments that Lancaster's influence warrants greater responsibility? It's amazing how people are attacking your person instead of your position. It shows more about them than it does about you. The other thing they need to think about is the autonomy of local churches. Wouldn't Matthew 18 cause a conflict of interest between your pastor and Brother Chappell? And if we can no longer expect God-called pastors to be publicly accountable, why should we expect man-elected governments to be accountable? As for a public outcry, I believe that the public outcry that you are pushing for is imminent, if it is not already there. Please keep pressing on.”
“I do not always agree with some subjects you bring forward in your writings, but I must say this one you hit it -- dead center. I grew up in music, worldly music, and was a servant to it. It made me move, contorting my body in an ungodly manner. It took years for God to throw down the mold from the wheel of life and crush it, then mold me into what He wanted me to be, free from the snares, lies, and utter deception that the worldly music brings. ... The influence of the worldly music comes into the mainline churches via the Charismatic movement. It is nothing but worshiping the flesh. True worship is honoring God in everything you do, lacking in nothing. The Lord has his seal of approval on your efforts in this respect. May the Lord of all grace and mercy bless you.”
“Using CCM is worldly and is sin. I watched the YouTube video and could not believe anyone who stands for biblical principles could have such an event. From what I have read this trend at West Coast has been going on for some time. Why has not someone else addressed this? Who is West Coast accountable to? When the light of God's Word exposes worldliness, people who love God's truth repent. I hear not one word of repentance from West Coast and that brothers me greatly. Our loyalty should be to our Savior and His truth. You did right and thank you.”
“Thank you brother Cloud for taking a Godly stand. I support you.”
“Brother Cloud, Spot on!”
“Stay in the fight! Bro. Cloud, a host of people are praying for you.”
“Jesus was never in the majority. When I was still in sin, I'd go to everyone and try to get a team together that would side with me to defend my stance even if I was in the wrong. I think what you have done is call attention to a subject that is very emotional and divides many churches. I was a drug using, dealing, bar hopping rock and roll concert, immoral person for the majority of my life. I have been redeemed for 15 years now and some years ago went to a ... Christmas concert (with good intentions), but found it so much like a rock concert I was appalled. Thanks!”
“I am writing again to express amazement at just how far Independent Baptist have moved in the wrong direction concerning music. ... I know which Bible the one-world church WILL NOT be using! Well then one can conclude that the one-world church WILL probably NOT be using the old hymnal and the blessed old church songs and hymns. What do you think?”
“Thank you a hundred times over for this article [‘Musical Associations and CCM Adaptation’]. You have articulated so many things in a concise manner, many of which have been floating in fragments through our minds or discussed in our home, but which we have not succeeded (or even attempted) to consolidate in such a fashion. We appreciate you giving specific examples to prove your points. In a family discussion just recently we were comparing the lyrics of ‘Majesty’ specifically with some of the great doctrinal hymns of the Faith to illustrate to our children why we have such a great aversion for modern charismatic music in general. I look forward to sharing your article with them.”
“I am an independent Fundamental Bible Believing Baptist missionary. ... I just wanted to send you a quick note to let you know that I greatly appreciate your stand and your willingness to be a watchman. We need more Christ honoring men who are willing to stand up and proclaim the truth no matter who it may or may not offend. It saddens me to see how quickly some of these fundamental baptist churches are falling by the wayside especially in the areas of easy believism and in the area of music. May God Bless you as you take a bold stand for Him and the Truth.”
“May God bless you, profusely and always! These foolish naysayers need to get a life and move on!! This was not a ‘within one church’ issue, thus, Matthew 18 would not apply! Warning others of the Devil's wiles is called for in the Bible! Especially in this case where Brother David Cloud is exercising his duties as a good shepherd for the many who listen to him!”
“I have been pushed to further heights with you writings. Iron sharpeneth iron. The Lord has used the Way of Life greatly and of course the Word even more so. ... You promote The Word of God. That is more important then be cozy with man. Even Me. I pray for you and the ministry the has used you in. 1 Sam 15:22 - it is better to obey than sacrifice.”
“Well said [‘What If Brother Cloud Is Wrong about the West Coast Thing?’]. I recently taught on the misuse and abuse of Matthew 18. It is sad when preachers and missionaries do not even know the proper use of Biblical correction. People have taken and twisted 1 Cor. 5-6 and packed it into Matthew 18 and at the same time totally ignored 1 Tim. 5.”
“For young preachers like us and future preachers who want to stay uncompromisingly on the Scriptures, we need this kind of warning and exhortation. ... Your kind of ministry does a lot of good to us. Heads up, Bro Cloud, our Redemption draweth nigh. Keep up the good work.”
“I find it amazing (but maybe I shouldn't) that so many people want to focus on you and your actions instead of focusing on the issue. As you said here, you are not the problem. The lack of desire to stand true to Biblical standards is the problem. God bless!”
“I do want to encourage you. The ‘crowd’ or multitude has always been wrong. I knew from your first post you were in for some criticism. Looks to me like we ought to be criticizing (rebuking and reproving) false doctrine and practices, rather than defending them. David, I would never have thought 10-15 years ago so many IFB churches would be involved in so much worldliness. But I think you too fully understand we are so very near the Lord's return and what we are seeing He told us would happen. What bothers me the most is the effect this is having on the Lord's sheep because of the poor quality and lack of discernment of those in the pulpits of IFB churches. They are slandering the name of our Lord and those of us who love our Savior, His sheep and a lost and dying world. Thank you for being the watchman on the wall.”
“I am extremely encouraged to see such ‘fighting talk.’ It's about time somebody starting whipping and driving out the dumb dogs who don't bark (Isaiah 56:10-11). As for apathy, which you mentioned, I hear you. Whenever I bring these sorts of things up, people like my parents and my church's deacons yawn or bring up their little smokescreens so as to look so pious and convincing to the ignorant observers. It's disgusting. What do they hope to accomplish with their fatalism (i.e., we can't do anything about compromise and these deviations, so let's go with the flow so long as we aren't at the front of the school of fish moving towards polluted waters)? What do they hope to accomplish with apathy when God has plainly instructed them as to what they should believe and what to do about it?”
“Dear Bro. Cloud: I don't believe Matthew 18 applies in your warning about LBC and WCBC. If any passage of Scripture would be used against the manner of your warning it would be Galatians 6:1. However, I believe you have not set yourself up as a righteous judge. I took your warning as a reproof in the spirit of meekness with the intent of restoration. LBC's music is public knowledge. Reproof is in keeping with II Tim. 4:2 and Titus 2:1,12 &15. Peter was not too big to be reproved by Paul nor is Pastor Chappell by any brother. The sad thing is so many think he is too big to be wrong. That's a scary place for IB's to be going. This is not a matter of personal preference's but of significant error and compromise that will have eternal consequences.”
“Thank you for the sanity check (‘What If Brother Cloud Is Wrong about the West Coast Thing?’). You, by your warnings, indeed will not destroy any church loving and serving Christ in humble obedience to His Word. But there are many, many things can can and will, if left unchecked. Thank you for your humble obedience to your Master.”
“Praise the Lord for your boldness and for not allowing the fear of man to become a snare in preventing you from reproving a serious direction of compromise at West Coast and Lancaster. I would like to add another country of influence of West Coast to your list – Papa New Guinea. ... There is a West Coast influence there because of the IB missionaries who are sent out by WC. They are inviting and in some cases paying for the national pastors to go to their conferences back in the US. ... The American missionaries don’t see it, but the music that they are promoting is a hindrance and a stumbling block to the people. What makes it confusing is that they stand against the Pentecostal/charismatic music and hand out Cary Schmidt’s book ‘Music Matters’ to help educate the pastors about the dangers of CCM. ... I was given some WC music. I was quite shocked when I listened to it, and it now sits in my stack of CDs that I use to demonstrate what not to listen to. ... This WC influence is confusing for them and is going to cause many more problems down the track if it is not confronted.”
Proverbs 27:5-6 “Open rebuke is better than secret love. Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful.”
Galatians 4:16 “Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?”
Psalms 119:165 “Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them.”
Proverbs 9:8 “Reprove not a scorner, lest he hate thee: rebuke a wise man, and he will love thee.”
- Receive these reports by email
- www.wayoflife.org
______________________
Sharing Policy: Much of our material is available for free, such as the hundreds of articles at the Way of Life web site. Other items we sell to help fund our expensive literature and foreign church planting ministries. Way of Life's content falls into two categories: sharable and non-sharable. Things that we encourage you to share include the audio sermons, O Timothy magazine, FBIS articles, and the free eVideos and free eBooks. You are welcome to make copies of these at your own expense and share them with friends and family. You may also post parts of reports and/or entire reports to websites, blogs, etc as long as you give proper credit (citation). A link to the original report is very much appreciated as the reports are frequently updated and/or expanded. Things we do not want copied and distributed are "Store" items like the Fundamental Baptist Digital Library, print editions of our books, electronic editions of the books that we sell, the videos that we sell, etc. The items have taken years to produce at enormous expense in time and money, and we use the income from sales to help fund the ministry. We trust that your Christian honesty will preserve the integrity of this policy. "For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward" (1 Timothy 5:18). Questions? support@wayoflife.org
Goal:Distributed by Way of Life Literature Inc., the Fundamental Baptist Information Service is an e-mail posting for Bible-believing Christians. Established in 1974, Way of Life Literature is a fundamental Baptist preaching and publishing ministry based in Bethel Baptist Church, London, Ontario, of which Wilbert Unger is the founding Pastor. Brother Cloud lives in South Asia where he has been a church planting missionary since 1979. Our primary goal with the FBIS is to provide material to assist preachers in the edification and protection of the churches.
Offering: Offerings are welcome if you care to make one. If you have been helped and/or blessed by our material offerings can be mailed or made online with with Visa, Mastercard, Discover, or Paypal. For information see: www.wayoflife.org/about/makeanoffering.html.
