Responses to My Warnings About Lancaster's Music - Part 2

February 28, 2011 (David Cloud, Fundamental Baptist Information Service, P.O. Box 610368, Port Huron, MI 48061, 866-295-4143, fbns@wayoflife.org; for instructions about subscribing and unsubscribing or changing addresses, see the information paragraph at the end of the article)


Proverbs 27:5-6 “Open rebuke is better than secret love. Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful.”

Galatians 4:16 “Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?”

Psalms 119:165 “Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them.”

Proverbs 9:8  “Reprove not a scorner, lest he hate thee: rebuke a wise man, and he will love thee.”

Psalms 119:128 Therefore I esteem all thy precepts concerning all things to be right; and I hate every false way.


Following are some more of the positive e-mails I have received in response to the Friday News article “Lancaster Baptist Shouting to the Lord.”

“I would like to thank you for your warning about West Coast Baptist College. I am convinced that you did the right thing in going the way you did since this is an ongoing trend that needs to be stopped for the sake of the college and Lancaster Baptist Church. People who were planning to deal with the issue of CCM need to be informed.”

“Contrary to what some of the pastors said when they wrote in about your article, there IS a distinct back beat in the music in West Coast’s ‘Shout to the Lord’ piece. It is just not done using a modern drum set but laid down by the bass instruments, brass, left hand of piano, cymbals and the timpani. The issue of the back beat has nothing to do with instruments.”

“The only demons that are involved in this situation, are those spirits that are trying to seduce pastors and churches that it is fine to use the devil's music to worship God.  The only spirits that are at work are the seducing spirits of Satan, and the spirit of compromise. I would argue that pastors and IFB leaders that are out there defending the use of CCM and castigating the few men of God out there willing to expose it for what it is, SATANIC music, are those that have fallen under the influence of the god of this world! I turned down yet another missionary seeking support today, because he told me he didn't see anything wrong with contemporary worship music in his own private listening, even though he didn't plan to use it in his church planting ministry.  He was a PCC grad.”

“I just got done with the Friday church notes and came to a stunning conclusion. Over the past few days you have been going back and forth with West Coast and Lancaster graduates, preachers etc. I have watched it with interest. But today it suddenly dawned on me that probably many of those same critics that have been slamming you for numerous reasons, would never even blink an eye for the other materials you teach on and names you name (e.g., your Friday church news notes today). However, when your updates hit a golden calf that they like, follow or respect, that becomes a completely different matter. I believe this is one of the highest forms of hypocrisy I have seen in a very long time. Quite unfortunate. Keep up the fight. Were praying for you.”

“You mentioned A ‘CRITICAL EYE’ Recently a graduate of a fundamental Baptist Bible college told me that he had learned at school not to have a ‘critical eye.’ You know, that is exactly what I was told while attending Hyles-Anderson.  If somebody outside of FBC Hammond  disagreed with or exposed something Hyles or now Schaap did then they (Hyles,Schaap) would say ‘stay away from the critics....they have a bad spirit....etc....’ As far as I'm concerned, Hyles and Schaap didn't want anybody to think they could be wrong.  After all, they are ‘great men of God’ and so they have to be right. For example, Schaap did a series of messages on finances. Come to find out that what he was teaching was from a charismatic named Bishop Mears. When that info. got out, Schaap started the ‘don't listen to the critical garbage...’  He even handed out trash cans to everybody in Pastor's School and told the people to put the criticism (info. they hear about Schaap) into the garbage. It's like they don't want people to think for themselves.  Like the media, they only want you to believe what they tell you. There is a difference between criticism and discernment and as Christians, we are to have discernment. Like Paul said ‘he that is spiritual judgeth ALL things.’”

[Note from Brother Cloud: Any church that grants “unquestioning loyalty” to a pastor is an idolatrous man-centered cult and should be treated like a cult. I don’t care what name it bears.]

“Keep up the good work! If only more pastors would courageously proclaim the Word of God!”

“Thank you, and God continue to bless your ministry. Your take on the music in many of these Schools like West Coast is what I have noticed for sometime on any of their cd's that I have bought. ... Have you heard the Hyles Anderson radio station as you drive through I-94 around the bottom of Lake Michigan and into Chicago? I was shocked last year we drove through there. Not much different from the popular music radio stations in the Chicago area.”

I have read your article – and also remember your much earlier synopsis of your (totally correct) view on Matthew 18 (‘going to a brother’). You are absolutely spot on in your reading of Scripture, your concern, your approach, and your very obvious love for the truth of God’s Word – and love for the offending brother(s)! You have also gone way past ‘the extra mile’ in explaining your position from every angle so that these brothers are left with nowhere to go – and it is noticeable that they cling to Matthew 18 to try and ‘prove’ their position and have made no attempt to find other support for their position, foolishly relying on feelings while typically making unsupported ad hominem attacks. ... 1 Corinthians 11:19 For there must be also factions among you, that they that are approved may be made manifest among you. You are to be commended in this extra work – particularly in these apostate days when most Christians are lukewarm in the extreme. I daily thank God in Christ Jesus for your ministry and the knowledge that God still has His thousands who have not bowed the knee to Baal.”

“'I'm afraid that 'Shout to the Lord' is one of the more mild examples of CCM at Lancaster Baptist Church. I have heard countless Casting Crown songs and Mercy Me songs along with dozens of others just as contemporary.”

“Another reason for you to expose the place is for the fact that many pastors promote and send their youth to his college. They (LBC) advertise and promote to get pastors to send their kids.  Many pastors reject the CCM movement and would want to know if it is creeping into the place.  Pastors have a right to know what is going on.”

“You uncompromising stand for what you believe is truth, and, though I don't always see eye to eye with you (I don't think I do with anyone), I'm in your corner (because I'm in truth's corner). I know its hard. From my heart to yours, I think you're doing a good job. Keep seeking the Lord, stay close to Christ. Keep up the good work brother.”

“Amen and amen, Bro Cloud. Appreciating your stand, sense, and sagacity in this sensitive and serious issue.”

“To me, regarding the Lancaster issue, there is no issue. You did what you had to do. If they do not like it, then tough. It reminds me of  Gal 4:16, ‘Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?’ And then that silly pastor talking about hippie demons. When a person is saved, then their past is no longer an issue. They could have been a hard core satan worshipping , murdering, raping, psychopath, and none of that would matter if they are  now born again.  Apparently this basic fact of salvation seems to have slipped through this Pastor's thinking. Who is more powerful, spirits of the past  or Jesus?  Kind of a cheap shot to try and hold your past against you. Jesus doesn't hold your past against you, so who is he to do it? ... And of course people get offended when told that they are wrong, their pride and ego get hit. So what? The truth is the truth. The Bible offends a lot of people, so what. Jesus offends a lot of people, so what.  The truth shall make you free. In the end, they will either get over it or not get over it, but the truth is the truth no matter what.”

“I would just like to encourage you as you hear from people who are erroneously focusing on the messenger instead of the message of CCM at West Coast Baptist College/Lancaster Baptist Church.  You have made it abundantly clear that your delivery was the only way given the situation. We know that you are not Bro. Chappell’s enemy or theirs.  Galatians 4:16 ‘Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?’  I pray that the unexpected happens and this issue is righted at WCBC/LBC.  Please take Godly courage in, Psalm 34:19 Many are the afflictions of the righteous: but the LORD delivereth him out of them all. We are thankful for your ministry.”

“Reprove not a scorner, lest he hate thee: rebuke a wise man, and he will love thee Proverbs 9:8. We are known by our fruits. If they are wise and their hearts are of a humble teachable spirit, they will love you for your open rebuke and warnings. I believe that your heart is correct, your motives pure and your judgements spot on. Your ministry has been a blessing to me. I pray that God upholds you, and continues to bless your ministry. I am reminded of Nehemiah’s prayer of strength and for God’s blessings on the work that had been done in the Name and to the glory of God. ‘Remember me, O my God ... wipe not out my good deeds that I have done for the house of my God...’ Neh 13:14”

“Thank you for your stand concerning the music promoted at West Coast. You are right on target. Our teens have expressed a concern for some time now concerning the direction the music is going there. Thank you also for your entire ministry. Paul the Apostle could say that he did what he did because of ‘ignorance.’ Paul Chappell cannot say that, if for no other reason, because of your faithful and Scriptural ministry exposing all types of apostasy. Thank you again Brother Cloud.”

“Just keep telling the truth Bro. Cloud, we appreciate it!  No one wishes to hear bad news about Lancaster Baptist Church, or any fundamental church going down hill, but it must be reported for the cause of Christ. As a young Christian, I looked up to Baptist churches like Thomas Road, Highland Park, Northside in Charlotte,  Bible Baptist in Savannah, Kansas City Baptist Temple, Trinity in Jacksonville and Landmark Baptist Temple in Ohio   But look where those churches are today!!!  What could have happen to those churches if someone would have stood up and said, ‘This church is on the wrong path.’ Thank you brother. Just keep telling the truth.”

“It doesn't matter how good the preacher is, or how soundly he thumps his Bible declaring the whole counsel of God (which, they don't even do that today!)....if the music is compromised, it's a lost game. Keep up the good work on the music topic. Also ‘Amen!’ on these ‘repeat after me’  sinners prayers. And don't worry about the taunts about, ‘Did you first approach the person individually?’”

“Brother David, I just came across your articles about ‘Shout to the Lord’ and Hillsong music at Lancaster. Brother Chappell is one of my favorite people in the world, but bad music is such a subtle enemy. Brother Shelton Smith has been on a crusade for years to try to hold the line on music, but even at Sword conferences some of the special music has been bad. Good stuff. Keep at it.”

[This e-mail is from a former Charismatic] “I mainly want to comment on something the West Coast Graduate said in his email to you that I haven't really seen addressed in all the responses, so far, but which I thinks is highly important.  He said, ‘But seriously, are the words evil? Can a Christian not be edified by these songs? Is it not more important for a person to be edified than it is to be approved by men?’ The thing that concerns me is the ignorance that these people have regarding the false doctrines that are endorsed by the likes of the Pentecostals and Charismatics and which all too often -- no, always -- are promoted in their songs.  Darlene's ‘Shout to the Lord’ is wrong mainly because its roots and style is wrong.  However, Jack Hayford's ‘Majesty’ is wrong not only because of its roots (and style, depending on who is playing it) but most importantly because of its dangerous false doctrine.  It's message is blatant Kingdom Now/Latter Rain/Restoration/Manifest Sons of God/Corporate Christ-ism. So in answer to the grad's ill-informed question, ‘Yes, the words are evil’ and, ‘No, it is not possible to be edified in the biblical sense by these songs.’ However, I think I could safely say that grad wouldn't know he was singing Kingdom Now doctrine if he fell over it.  And most likely, neither would either of those piano players in the ‘Shout’ video.  They wouldn't know either that the contemporary Emerging Church heresies, which they may or may not know anything about, are simply a product of those earlier heresies. ...  I know you've probably read this Scripture thousand times, but I'm going to quote it anyway.  It's the Words of Jesus Himself that have always given me great comfort (and added boldness) when the rocks start to fly. ‘Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man's sake.  Rejoice ye in that day, and leap for joy: for, behold, your reward is great in heaven’ Luke 6:22-23. You'll notice the Scripture doesn't say ‘all men’?  Just be aware that there is also a group of men (and women) who don't hate you, and who are not ashamed to keep you in their company. So keep barking!”

“I'm glad you wrote it. You are right. It is obvious to all but the sycophants. I have watched this all my life ... New faces and names but the same old thing. ... They are the standard, not the Book. They proclaim their separation and ‘old-fashionedness’ so they are! If you actually point out that the emperor has no clothes, the boot-lickers go into fits. From my observation this has everything to do with the sensuality of the age.  They can see, hear, smell, and feel the success of these men, so they can't consider for one nano-second that they might have weaknesses.  Who are you to say anything?  You are just a little missionary in a corner of the globe who preaches in little churches and writes self-published books that are not sold in any of the big bookstores!  They have thousands of followers and amazing kingdoms.  Therefore, you are just a jealous loon! ... May God help us to pursue purity and to stand.”

“You have not sinned in rebuking this ministry; they need to be corrected.  I thank you for your continued, uncompromising stand for the truth.”

“I do not covet your ministry dear brother, but when you take a stand like this, my heart goes out to God in behalf of you.”

“I think we were probably fellow students at Tenn. Temple during my years there (1972-1977). ... I did have occasion to address some concerns about early slides at TTC with both Dr. Roberson and Dr, Faulkner in those days and it was summarily dismissed. ... The track record of turn-arounds is not encouraging in such ministries but the truth must be declared, at times publicly. Some day soon we will be too old to bark at all much less at the right time! Keep nipping at their heels till our Lord returns for us.”

“It sure sounds like the pride level is huge in the so-called fundamental churches today. Who is this about?? Us, or our Precious Lord Jesus Christ?  ... I think we have been in church history way long enough to not be making these kind of bad choices on music. I believe winking days are far far gone to claim ignorance. If the shut doors come Dr. Cloud, well so be it! The struggle is worth it to the very end.”

“Thank you for your stand on music. I am the music minister at -----. ... You are so very right. The blindness in this area is pervasive among many IFB churches. While I am saddened I am not discouraged. I am grateful for a Holy God who calls us to holiness and separation. I am grateful for His leading us to a place of Hope and for opening our eyes to the deception of Satan, subtle as it is. In my Bible reading this morning in 2 Tim chapter 2 and 3, I am reminded that it is through a spirit of meekness God works. While you have been pointed in your open rebuke of carnality, I believe you have done so in the spirit of meekness. Thank you, Brother Cloud, for your stand on this and so many other issues we face today. I have committed to pray for you daily that God will continue to give you the strength and courage to continue this needed ministry. In His strength.”

“Amen! I also regret the trouble (stirred up by people ‘soft’ on soft rock -- what you wrote shouldn't be controversial), but this issue is where the destruction is happening! Many churches will probably be destroyed by this means. It won't be because of the few faithful watchmen we have. Your commentary here and in Monday's emails should be read and re-read often. Thank you!”

“You need not respond to this note -- as I know you are immersed in much communication -- but suffice it to say that this using, abusing and distorting of Matthew 18 to clam up warnings on spiritual drift is an all too common habit among professing believers. The process of reconciliation for offences as outlined in Matthew 18 is applied in the context of a New Testament Church (Matt. 18:17) and among believers related as such. Grant it, this does not mean that the principles should not and cannot be applied in relationship to others in the family of God who may not be united under Christ in the same assembly. However, the restoration process also pertains to ‘private’ and ‘personal’ matters (Matt. 18:15) not ‘public’ concerns. Any ministries publicized and promoted beliefs, methodologies, philosophies, theologies, and ideologies are fair game for public, critical examination, evaluation, exhortation, condemnation or commendation based on the unchanging standard for faith and practice  -- the truth of the eternal Word (I Thess. 5:21-22). It disturbs me when brothers place ministry reputation, personal loyalty, and ‘greater cause’ allegiance above loyalty to Christ, His honor, His glory and His Word.”

“I just read the e-mail concerning the pastor who thought ‘demons made you do it.’  Now, I chuckled at that but the sad part is the guy was serious!  As you well know, I understand the music issue, having lived near the Gaithers for many years. Heaven forbid when you write or say anything about them. In Indiana there was a whole ‘Independent Baptist Fellowship’ built around their type of music! Totally silly, but they are serious about it and get angry about it if you point out why they should not be doing that.  As we watch the continual slide into apostasy of the Bible Colleges like Tennessee Temple, Crown, Pensacola, West Coast and Bob Jones, I believe Tennessee Temple should have been a huge warning. I remember going to Cedarville almost 30 years ago and look at it today and it started with music going in the wrong direction.  I spoke to the leaders about it back then and got, ‘we believe students should be allowed to make their own decisions.’ However, I wrote about TTU awhile back and why the leadership allowed it to go that way. (As you know ‘everything rises and falls on leadership’). I got preachers writing back who said, ‘Don't speak evil of the dead.’  I mean, come on, do we just stick our head in the sand because someone has died? They went on about how folks had been kind to them. Kindness is not the issue here, although we wish to be kind, Ephesians 4:32, it does not mean we should not learn from the past. People are human sinners and we should not put them on a pedestal and blindly follow.  It is not an attack; it is let's wake up and not continue to do some things just because others did it that way and ended up in destruction. Let's stop and see what the Bible says on this most important issue that has deceived and destroyed many, Proverbs 13:13, Galatians 6:7-8, Romans 6:11-19. Are we so dumb that we just go with the flow and get swept away as everyone else for numbers and carnality?  I for one do not intend to go that way and I do not wish to be a politician that goes along to get along. I want to do right and do what the Bible says, not what the Bible College, Fellowship, Publication, or ‘Good old Boys network’ want me to do. ... Good job on Lancaster and don't allow the detractors to stop you from speaking when you know that God wants you to speak.  May the Lord bless you as you serve Him.”

“Thank you Brother for bringing light to a place that has needed illuminating for a long time. I am familiar with a church and a pastor that models itself after West Coast and I have no doubt that you are persona non-grata there from now on. Keep up the heat and light!!!”

“Brother Cloud, I have read all your emails about Lancaster and West Coast and agree 100% with you. I am also very sensitive with regards to CCM and have seen several churches and schools gradually get worse and more worldly when the music began to be contemporary.  You did what needed to be done regardless of the trouble folks give you.  Praise the Lord for taking that stand and God bless you for it.”

“I just wanted to thank you for standing on the Word of God.  I know many are upset with you over the issue of the use of CCM music at LBC and WCBC.  I'm a regular reader of your website, and have been following the updates that you post. I listen to a lot of the music from LBC online, and I too have noticed that the lean towards contemporary music quite heavily.  It is sad, and your warning is GREATLY needed. I have a degree in Sacred Music, so the issue of music is something that is close to my heart, and it is also one that I understand.  As I teenager I was not part of an IFB church, and we sung such music as ‘Shout to the Lord’ and other CCM.  God has really worked on this in my life, and it makes me sad when I see IFB churches using this type of music.  I thought we were supposed to be different from the ‘mainstream’ type Christianity?? I also want to commend you for the gracious and loving way you have been handling this.  Your original posting in Friday Church News was honest, but gracious and kind. I can't imagine getting emails like those you mentioned in your update today!  Many accuse you of being unloving, etc. in this matter, and then they send you nasty emails! I don't get that??  I'm praying for you and your ministry!  Please don't stop or give up! We need people like you who are not afraid to take a stand.  Don't let the critics get to you. There are MANY of us out there who are applauding your efforts.  You encourage us to keep up the fight! On a different note, I would also like to thank you for all the articles on various topics on your website.  I was dealing with many spiritual issues between myself and a friend from an "emerging" type church about a year ago, and your articles helped me greatly. They gave me the Scriptures I needed to defend my stand, and also helped me to confirm that what I was doing was right. The information on your website is great source!”

“Right on, Brother Cloud. Too much music smacks of the ecumenical/modernistic crowd, and it has captured the minds and hearts of several generations of young people whose families attend Baptist churches. Enough (period). Sound the clarion call, and maybe, just maybe some will take a stand.”

“I am thankful for your ministry and your work in pointing out the many compromises that are going on around us.  Most of us do not have the exposure to the wealth of research data that you have.  Yes, we can read and find many of these things out for ourselves, but your compendium of articles is every welcome every time they are available. I have, at times, researched something I read that was one of your articles.  Invariably the facts were right on. I have not found your presentations in the Friday Church News Notes or other writings to be without merit.  Thank you.  Keep up the good work.  Many of us are praying that you don’t let the detractors deter you.  Stand true.  Stand strong.  Give thanks to the Lord my brother.”

“Brother Cloud, thanks for your godly efforts and courage to stand against and publicly expose compromise in places where it is already being displayed publicly. I have also experienced the same response that you are now receiving but Gal.2:14 is still in my Bible and I think it is not too bad to stand in company with the Apostle Paul. Keep Looking Up.”

“I want to thank you for bringing this issue to my attention. I know you are taking a lot of criticism for this but don't back down!. I had no idea. I encouraged my granddaughter to attend there. I confronted my Pastor Son and ... he told his daughter had been complaining about their music. ... I am just sick about this. So thank you again for bringing this issue to light.”

“EXCELLENT reply [to the charge of why you didn’t first talk with Bro. Chappell].”

“I wanted to write and let you know that I appreciate your stand and the material you send. I have been watching this controversy concerning West Coast Bible College and agree with you 100%. I am a independent Baptist missionary pastor/church planter. I recently forwarded the original article to a pastor who was a West Coast graduate and he went ballistic to say the least. ... I explained to him, as he is a young pastor, that the issue here is ‘respect of persons’ and that is sadly why the church is where it is today. God bless you and thanks again for being a worthy watchman!”

“We appreciate you laying out LBC's music controversy publicly. We love Dr. Chappell and his great burden for souls Christ died for. We have a student there and the fact that both conservative music and contemporary music is used has bothered us since enrolled so we are hoping, as we keep praying for Dr. Chappell and staff, that God can get things set on a straight path.”

“A good friend said to me, ‘If you were a pastor, and another pastor -- or in this case someone who isn’t even a pastor -- had a problem with something you did, would you prefer them to blast it all over the internet and in their newsletter, or rather pick up the phone first and at least give you a courtesy call?’ I replied, ‘You’ve never criticized the Pope without calling him first? Billy Graham? Joel Osteen? Jack Schaap? Bro. Chappell has been approached by others on the CCM issue, and has continued to stray in the liberal direction. They have published some of their CCM publicly. It’s not a personal matter at all. You have to contact a person first when you have a matter with HIM. Cloud’s issue was CCM, not Chappell personally. Does he have to contact EVERYONE who allows CCM before he can speak against it? [By the way,] did you contact David Cloud before you criticized him? Proverbs 27:5-6 says, Open rebuke is better than secret love. Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful.’”

“If I stand with the Lord Jesus (on Mt. Sinai, at Calvary, outside the empty tomb, and on the Mt. of Olives when He ascended), CCM looks like Sodom burning to me. We occasionally add a hymn to our hymnal, and awhile back one of the men who attends showed me a song that sounded good and seemed to have good words, so we paid the copyright license fees and printed it out and glued it in and sang it. One of our men had a background in rock, and he came to me and said, ‘Pastor, I am picking up some bad vibes out of this song.’ ... We came to the conclusion that, since he'd been in the rock scene for a long time, he was hearing subtle undertones and nuances in the music I couldn't hear. Another of our families told me they looked up the composer's name to see what else he had written and found that he is a full fledged CCM musician. So I took the hymn out of our books, and the man who donated it was NOT happy at all. One other little insight, I attended a Baptist fellowship meeting. The preacher’s wife was something else. I had to turn my eyes away when she was around. Her hair and clothing and walk, her whole manner shouted, ‘Look at me!!!! I am sexy.’ And of course she sang and her music was Hillsong, almost entirely. One session when she was performing, I was looking across the auditorium and just happened to see a young pastor coming out of the toilet with a big smile, and he was miming the words of the Hillsong junk she was singing. So I said to myself, ‘You are not only familiar with this song, but you have memorized it, and that means it is the music you listen to with enjoyment.’ That is what we are coming to. It is one of the factors involved in me deciding not to go back to their Bible conferences any more.”


Proverbs 27:5-6 “Open rebuke is better than secret love. Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful.”

Galatians 4:16 “Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?”

Psalms 119:165 “Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them.”

Proverbs 9:8  “Reprove not a scorner, lest he hate thee: rebuke a wise man, and he will love thee.”


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