June 3, 2006 (David Cloud, Fundamental Baptist Information Service, P.O. Box 610368, Port Huron, MI 48061, 866-295-4143, fbns@wayoflife.org; for instructions about subscribing and unsubscribing or changing addresses, see the information paragraph at the end of the article) -

Following are some of the responses I have received from the article we published on June 2 entitled “Fundamental Baptists Must Face Sexual Abuse by Pastors” (by Dr. Don Boys prefaced with my comments) and my replies to the responses:

RESPONSE # 1

Dear Dr. Boys: How very true your report about the “good ole boys" clubs (reported by Dr. David Cloud) within fundamentalism today. I called Pastor Tom Messer in 2001, and inquired about the little murmurs that I had been hearing on the sawdust trail. I had relatives that were members of Trinity and I was concerned. Messer told me that he believed that Gray had “done everything that they had asked him” (counseling wise) and that he felt that he was all right now but “still could not be in the presence of little girls by himself.” I asked if he still preached at Trinity Baptist Church, Messer replied, "No," as the little girls are now big girls and they do not understand how and why would let him come back. Messer said that Gray was no longer the pastor emeritus of the church nor chancellor of the college. I then inquired as to the churches knowledge of this difficulty and Messer said that they were not informed. I then asked about the mission and he said that they were not informed as well. The sad thing that no one has addressed is this: How many other precious little girls have been ruined by Gray’s misconduct that perhaps is/was still going on? Terrible question to ask but a true and necessary one.”

REPLY FROM BROTHER CLOUD

Thank you for writing. So very few are willing to speak out on this. We are only sinners saved by grace at our very best, but we cannot ignore and despise the Lord’s Word and His standards for pastors. I have often said that New Evangelicals seem to care more about the feelings of wolves than the safety of the sheep, but it is equally true that too many IB pastors can more about the feelings of immoral preachers than the safety of the flock.

In Christ, Bro. Cloud

RESPONSE # 2

Dear Bros. Cloud and Boys,

I appreciate your stand on most issues. Your courage, devotion and dedication to the Saviour is unquestioned.  No doubt God uses you both to defend old-fashioned Baptist Fundamentalism, for which I am thankful. I would never question your zeal or motives.  But I feel there is another problem amongst fundamental Baptists. It seems we are sometimes reluctant to spread good news, but quick to spread bad news. If Bob Gray is guilty of the charges against him, [any of them], then I agree with your position. In fact I agree with your entire article, including your suggestion: "No accusation against a pastor should be believed until it is proved beyond a doubt, but it should be investigated."

You even quoted I Tim. 5, but then misused the Scripture. "Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear." The Bible said them that sin, not them that have been accused.

Therefore, I believe it was unfair and unbiblical for you to publish the article naming Bob Gray not knowing whether he is guilty or innocent.   I'm letting you know my position not in a haughty attempt to rebuke, but in a loving attempt to point out an error, believing your motive is to do your very best for the Lord, as mine is.

Again, the teaching of the article was "right on target" and much needed.  Thank you for these timely reminders.

REPLY FROM BROTHER CLOUD

Thank you for taking the time to write and share your concerns and for the graciousness of your communication. I would not have published that serious matter if the charge had not already been proven and acknowledged by him and his church. That is why he resigned from Trinity in 1992 and went to the mission field. That much has been acknowledged by Pastor Tom Messer, who took Gray's place in the pastorate in Jacksonville. More than a dozen women have come forward to accuse Gray of sexual abuse. That is far more than the two or three witnesses required by Scripture. These are not women from outside of the church who conceivably could have been hired by someone to make a false accusation. These are women who grew up in Gray’s church.

In Christ, Bro. Cloud

RESPONSE # 3

Dr. Cloud, this is much needed editorial. This is being going on for years. My heart is saddened. Too long we swept this under the rug.  But I approach this with much trembling in regards take heed lest you fall. My pastor that lead me to the LORD fell, I found out 500 miles away. But I was broken-hearted and wept. He was restored and his wife never divorced him and the marriage was put back together. He helps his son in missionary work today. God bless you.

REPLY FROM BROTHER CLOUD

Thank you for taking the time to write. What you say is very important. I definitely write such things in the greatest fear and trembling. I know that I am but flesh. I know my own failings. At our very best, we are only sinners saved by grace. We are weak earthen vessels. When I hear about another preacher who has fallen to immorality I always think, “There but for the grace of God go I.” Proverbs 7:26 warns that immorality “hath cast down many wounded: yea, many strong men have been slain by her.”

At the same time, God has clear standards for pastors and we must not despise them and we must not fear or respect man more than God. That was the grave sin that Eli committed in regard to his sons who were priests (1 Sam. 2:29).

I believe that if a man who has so fallen repents he can still serve the Lord in some capacity by God's grace, but he should stay out of the pastorate.

In Christ, Bro. Cloud

RESPONSE # 4

Sadly, but not surprisingly, this is not only a Baptist problem.  Let me explain. We were members of a church of 13,000 for 20 years, active and in leadership, even to the point of having an office in the main office area.  During our years there it would "suddenly" be announced that a pastor (there were about 20 on staff at that time) “had been called (by God) to leave.”  Being privy to the inner workings we knew those pastors were leaving because of indiscretions, only to learn they had gone on staff at another church! When we approached the senior pastor (of 35 years) asking him about the pastors new positions and whether the new church was advised, he told us that was not his job and he believed their actions were just mistakes and would not be repeated. We told him of the liabilities and legal ramifications ... of his not informing the other churches, which went on deaf ears. Another interesting thing which happened was when the Amber Alert was instigated with computers set up at the fair to check zip codes for sexual predators in the area. We found 5 in our area and 1 actively involved in the children’s ministry for many years. Again, we approached the senior pastor and waited. This person was removed from his current ministry (sort of), however he was at the church every day except Saturday, heavily involved in the churches activities of all kinds.

We are no longer in that congregation, and there have been no ramifications for that senior pastor or any of the other pastors, or elders, so far (all knew why those pastors over the years had left, because it was talked about among the leaders).

Thank you for standing firmly planted in the only Truth which truly sets people free.

REPLY FROM BROTHER CLOUD

Thank you for the reminder that this is not a problem that is limited to Independent Baptists or even to some branch of Independent Baptists. Some of the contemporary or “progressive” Independent Baptist preachers have been having a field day pretending that this is an issue of legalism vs. genuine Biblical freedom, that it is the “legalists” and “knit-pickers” who are guilty of rampant hidden immorality. In fact, they need to look into the mirror. This is a problem of walking in the flesh and not in the Spirit, and it is not something that is limited to any certain group of Christians. It is a problem among New Evangelicals as much as Fundamentalists. The flesh was rampant even in some of the apostolic churches. The carnal church at Corinth comes to mind, for instance.

“This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would” (Galatians 5:16-17).

In Christ, Bro. Cloud